Democracy in China

If it is true that democracy exist in China and it works like described in this video, do you think it is good or bad system?

It reminds me of Soviet elections to some point, but don't try to understand it because it involves many republics and republics inside Russia (federation within federation). Chinese elections are more 'neat' since it is only one republic and no federation.

P.S.
Video is cringy cartoonish, i don't know why east asians make everything like that, but it decently explained and simplified

Tarafından yazıldı Skanderbeg, 10.11.2017 at 13:01

If it is true that democracy exist in China and it works like described in this video, do you think it is good or bad system?

It reminds me of Soviet elections to some point, but don't try to understand it because it involves many republics and republics inside Russia (federation within federation). Chinese elections are more 'neat' since it is only one republic and no federation.

P.S.
Video is cringy cartoonish, i don't know why east asians make everything like that, but it decently explained and simplified

I might be slightly biased but there is no hope for Non-Democratic China to go Democratic, Their system is a single party system that alone is a major problem leave the fact that there is no proper democratic institution like separation of power.
In an absolute monarchy, a king had a council that held no true power at the same time the king appointed everyone, controlled every position in the government. Here the Communist Party is doing the job of a king, they just have better tools to hide the skeletons of there tyranny.

There is no real democracy in China. At the lower levels (village, small towns) there's more competition but once you reach anything higher its all basically a show. The CCP has complete control of the country. No one may form a new party and all the other political parties only have about a quarter of a million people all together. While there has been some reforms on the side of law (at least for non-political issues), the party still maintains absolute control. Do I think this is a good system? Absolutely not- the people are forever silenced. The CCP has its technocrats in the bureaucracy and might do a decent job running the economy (up too interpretation), but the CCP would not hesitate to gun down their own people if they felt their hold on the country was loosening.

Tarafından yazıldı Pheonixking929, 18.11.2017 at 16:35

There is no real democracy in China. At the lower levels (village, small towns) there's more competition but once you reach anything higher its all basically a show. The CCP has complete control of the country. No one may form a new party and all the other political parties only have about a quarter of a million people all together. While there has been some reforms on the side of law (at least for non-political issues), the party still maintains absolute control. Do I think this is a good system? Absolutely not- the people are forever silenced. The CCP has its technocrats in the bureaucracy and might do a decent job running the economy (up too interpretation), but the CCP would not hesitate to gun down their own people if they felt their hold on the country was loosening.

Ok, we established there is no real democracy in China. Now let's see if current system works in China?

Because i think it works. Last 30 years they did amazing job, and i don't see any reason they won't continue to do so[low debt, low mil. spending, no social unrest(except tibet but seems no one care), no wars, no promoting violence and warmongering in the world]

We have to be honest and admit 80% of people don't care for politics. They don't even know what left-right spectrum is, not even clue what their policies are. How many people talk politics in real life? When they meet like in the restaurants, caffee or club? Definitely not. So politics is really low on our priority list.

in the US, Europe and even Russia, only 50% of eligible voters exercise their voting right, which mean there are another 50% which couldn't make it to the polls or simply didn't care. And that's alot of people.

Tarafından yazıldı Skanderbeg, 19.11.2017 at 17:59

Europe and even Russia

Why are you separating Russia from Europe?

Tarafından yazıldı Skanderbeg, 19.11.2017 at 17:59

Tarafından yazıldı Pheonixking929, 18.11.2017 at 16:35

snip!

Because i think it works. Last 30 years they did amazing job, and i don't see any reason they won't continue to do so[low debt, low mil. spending, no social unrest(except tibet but seems no one care), no wars, no promoting violence and warmongering in the world]

WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW

The CCP are not magical wizards, they did what the rest of the developed world had already been doing for decades- they liberalized their markets and allowed a limited number of free-market competition leading to vast increases in the wealth of their people. After Mao's death, the CCP has based their legitimacy on economic growth- not on the vote from the people. It's a social contract- the CCP remains in power so long as the standard of living of their people increases. I can respect this kind of rule, but that does not mean that I think it is necessarily good. Furthermore, China does NOT have low debt- it has some of the largest debt-GDP ratios in the world. The debt of their various provinces and cities are also unknown- we only know they are significantly in debt. They've spent vast sums in public works but they are unable to pay many of this off. In the future, it can be expected that they will have less money to spend to deal with dips in spending as seen last year when it looked likely a recession was coming. As for no social unrest- thousands of protest occur in China. Most are local issues. Why no national movements? Because the last time college students tried this, their government gunned them down. We don't know how many kids kids were slaughtered in the streets of Beijing or across the country. I would never say a government is amazing if it can only stay in power by butchering its youth. As fro not promoting violence or warmongering- it routinely attempts to expand its control of the South China Sea, it routinely stops any action over countries and regimes like North Korea through its veto power in the UN and continues to bully and boycott nations it doesn't like (Taiwan, and most recently South Korea). Its Belt and Road initiative has also seen the EU fail to condemn Chinas rampant human rights abuses (this is because Greece vetoed it- a country that was given billions in aid by China).

Tarafından yazıldı Skanderbeg, 19.11.2017 at 17:59

We have to be honest and admit 80% of people don't care for politics. They don't even know what left-right spectrum is, not even clue what their policies are. How many people talk politics in real life? When they meet like in the restaurants, caffee or club? Definitely not. So politics is really low on our priority list.

in the US, Europe and even Russia, only 50% of eligible voters exercise their voting right, which mean there are another 50% which couldn't make it to the polls or simply didn't care. And that's alot of people.

As stated above, why would one care about politics if they can't affect them? They know their government would kill them or their families if they act out. They also still hold some sway in the social contract I mentioned- lets see what happens when the economy dips. That day will come and who knows if Xi will be able to handle it- the strongest ruler in China since Mao.

As for political apathy- I have no problem with people refusing to vote. That is their right to do so. Just because people in the West refuse to vote doesn't mean it is okay for China to deny the vote to their people.

Tarafından yazıldı Pheonixking929, 19.11.2017 at 18:29

WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW

Why you westerners get easily shocked/triggered...

Tarafından yazıldı Pheonixking929, 19.11.2017 at 18:29

The CCP are not magical wizards, they did what the rest of the developed world had already been doing for decades- they liberalized their markets and allowed a limited number of free-market competition leading to vast increases in the wealth of their people. After Mao's death, the CCP has based their legitimacy on economic growth- not on the vote from the people. It's a social contract- the CCP remains in power so long as the standard of living of their people increases. I can respect this kind of rule, but that does not mean that I think it is necessarily good.

So it's a good thing. Living standards are rising, they have 420 million people in the middle class (60m in 2000 so that's a real progress), GDP growth 6%, unemployment 5% (less than some western countries which are way smaller) and PPP already equate USA. 150 million people moved from rural to urban towns, which is the greatest migration in human history for such a short time (30 years).

wikipedia/demographics_of_china
wikipedia/economy_of_china

Seems like a good deal to me. What is there to criticize? Only lack of vote right?

Tarafından yazıldı Pheonixking929, 19.11.2017 at 18:29

Furthermore, China does NOT have low debt- it has some of the largest debt-GDP ratios in the world. The debt of their various provinces and cities are also unknown- we only know they are significantly in debt. They've spent vast sums in public works but they are unable to pay many of this off. In the future, it can be expected that they will have less money to spend to deal with dips in spending as seen last year when it looked likely a recession was coming.

Wikipedia says they have $1.5 trl debt, compared to their GDP that's 15%, how is that high debt? That's extremely low debt. US debt is 100% of GDP, Japanese the same, British goes 300% and i won't even mention Luxembourg (6700%)



Only western news promoted stories of possible recession in China. Other side promoted stories of economic success. So it seemed like recession only from certain view, not everyones. Besides, some news report negatively for 3 decades and chinese economy is still not obliging their stories (in some time economy was growing 12%)

Tarafından yazıldı Pheonixking929, 19.11.2017 at 18:29

As for no social unrest- thousands of protest occur in China. Most are local issues. Why no national movements? Because the last time college students tried this, their government gunned them down. We don't know how many kids kids were slaughtered in the streets of Beijing or across the country. I would never say a government is amazing if it can only stay in power by butchering its youth.

I acknowledge there were riots in 1990 and murders, but i support their government. It was necessary. Better to arrest those foolish 1000(idk how many they killed, there was no intl inve.) than to let millions suffers like Russians and other Eastern Europeans after fall of communism. By stoppping those protesters, chinese now have better living standards than eastern europeans.

Tarafından yazıldı Pheonixking929, 19.11.2017 at 18:29

As fro not promoting violence or warmongering- it routinely attempts to expand its control of the South China Sea, it routinely stops any action over countries and regimes like North Korea through its veto power in the UN and continues to bully and boycott nations it doesn't like (Taiwan, and most recently South Korea). Its Belt and Road initiative has also seen the EU fail to condemn Chinas rampant human rights abuses (this is because Greece vetoed it- a country that was given billions in aid by China).

Expanding control within own territory is not warmongering or violence. It is normal behaviour.

It is morally good to veto UN resolutions, even for North Korea which is independent country, UN have no right to meddle there.

I don't know what happened with SK, but Taiwan is Chinese territory as much Crimea is Russian, Chinese live there not strangers, it is their own business and not ours to meddle. There are simply some people that have two countries; Germany-Austria, Ukraine-Russia, North Korea-South Korea, Serbia-Srpska Republic.

That is illogical western 'bug' which stops them from creating normal relations with the world' using human rights to influence economic deals. Doesn't make sense. China doesn't use leverage in Africa for example, just doing business and Africans like them more than Europeans, because they don't meddle in domestic affairs.

Tarafından yazıldı Pheonixking929, 19.11.2017 at 18:29

As stated above, why would one care about politics if they can't affect them? They know their government would kill them or their families if they act out. They also still hold some sway in the social contract I mentioned- lets see what happens when the economy dips. That day will come and who knows if Xi will be able to handle it- the strongest ruler in China since Mao.

As for political apathy- I have no problem with people refusing to vote. That is their right to do so. Just because people in the West refuse to vote doesn't mean it is okay for China to deny the vote to their people.

I've heard that slogan for 2 decades now: strongest ruler since Mao. First they said that about Deng, then Zemin, then Jintao and now Xi. It reminds me ALOT of 1984, where people believe something and then next minute they forget it only to believe something else and that goes in cycle. Don't buy it. Xi is not strong like Mao just like those before him weren't and Mao was not even strong in his time (otherwise he wouldn't have to start cult.rev. and great leap forw.)

I also won't acknowledge statement 'lets see what happens when economy dips', because when that happen ANY country will have social unrest, war or regime change, not only China, but any capitalist, communist, democratic or totalitarian nation. If USSR economy didn't fail, there would be no collapse, and retarded Yugoslavians even went to war when economy collapsed, they didn't only separated, because no one is stupid enough to risk and try something by a long shot if economy is good and wages are high.

I expect war in Asia .Without war soon China will be number uno
Chinks work harder then japanese +germans together

Tarafından yazıldı avatar, 20.12.2017 at 21:08

I expect war in Asia .Without war soon China will be number uno
Chinks work harder then japanese +germans together

Well not harder, but similar. Point is there are many of them, which mean more taxes collected, then that money can be transfered to some corporation to use it to become more competitive on the market (globally), then that gives advantage to China over Japan and Germany which are way smaller and can't afford to support their companies the same way (that's why they use EU or tried TTP).

Trump realized this, tried to copy in America so they can stay competitive and number one like during Cold War, but i think by now he realized that's impossible, as there is lack of people (beaurocrats/admins) supporting him (they are already on the payroll of US corpos which doesn't have national interest on their mind).

Is this a meme?

China is not a Democracy, and it fails the criteria to be a democracy right on the spot, by being a single-party system

It's also not a democracy because it does no guarantee individual rights and does not allow and defend tolerance, namely of religion, since the Chinese State and its ideology considers Religion a sickness of the mind, repressing religion and religion believers. So it cannot be considered a democracy at all, especially for those 2 reasons and for others.

Second, the CCP holds total control of the country, just like somebody here has said, competitive elections can actually exist on lower levels but as you climb the hierarchy, the political repression and strictness increases. There's no actual freedom and this shouldn't even be considered, if you just go back to 1989 and see that the same regime, same political party and same model of governance and attitude (somewhat) brought the Tiananmen Square incident.

Also, and just like I study in Constitutional Law in University, China fails the democratic criteria on the elections freedom. Elections to be truly worth of a democracy are considered by Constitutionalists to be:

Competitive (more than 1 party running)
Regular (From x to x years elections must be held)
Universal (Everybody must be allowed to vote, no discrimination must happen)
Free (No repression and fraudless)


The economic growth they are or were experienced isn't really fully attributed to the CCP. The CCP itself with its ideology would lead the country to misery, as you could see with Mao, the idiotic fat ass chink who mass murdered and led China through the brink of disaster with his cancer ideas and political measures of Maoism that brought almost economic ruin.

The economic growth they had is because of Deng Xiaoping, who was "liberal" and open-minded enough to proclaim the 1 Country 2 Systems model of governance and capitalisticized China, bringing China to the rank of an economic superpower.

Tarafından yazıldı Al Fappino, 21.12.2017 at 13:43

Is this a meme?

China is not a Democracy, and it fails the criteria to be a democracy right on the spot, by being a single-party system

It's also not a democracy because it does no guarantee individual rights and does not allow and defend tolerance, namely of religion, since the Chinese State and its ideology considers Religion a sickness of the mind, repressing religion and religion believers. So it cannot be considered a democracy at all, especially for those 2 reasons and for others.

Second, the CCP holds total control of the country, just like somebody here has said, competitive elections can actually exist on lower levels but as you climb the hierarchy, the political repression and strictness increases. There's no actual freedom and this shouldn't even be considered, if you just go back to 1989 and see that the same regime, same political party and same model of governance and attitude (somewhat) brought the Tiananmen Square incident.

Also, and just like I study in Constitutional Law in University, China fails the democratic criteria on the elections freedom. Elections to be truly worth of a democracy are considered by Constitutionalists to be:

Competitive (more than 1 party running)
Regular (From x to x years elections must be held)
Universal (Everybody must be allowed to vote, no discrimination must happen)
Free (No repression and fraudless)


The economic growth they are or were experienced isn't really fully attributed to the CCP. The CCP itself with its ideology would lead the country to misery, as you could see with Mao, the idiotic fat ass chink who mass murdered and led China through the brink of disaster with his cancer ideas and political measures of Maoism that brought almost economic ruin.

The economic growth they had is because of Deng Xiaoping, who was "liberal" and open-minded enough to proclaim the 1 Country 2 Systems model of governance and capitalisticized China, bringing China to the rank of an economic superpower.

You don't need parties to exercise democracy, as pointed out by the founding fathers of USA. So one-party system, multi-party system or no-party system doesn't describe democracy or non-democracy/authoritarianism.





I also don't agree Deng is the core reason for Chinese economic success, rather more reaction to economic mismanagement in Mao's Era, while the Chinese people mentality [discipline, hardwork] is core reason for their economic success.

Question: if (this) system works for the last 30 years, and we see millions and millions chinese are becoming middle-class (they have more middle class than america have citizens now), do you wish to see it continue to exist, or reform to western-style democracy?