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If you ban metyu ban me as well

If you ban Metyu might as well ban me as well.

Tarafından yazıldı Grand Inquisitor, 14.04.2025 at 12:01

Metyu gets banned, you can ban me as well

Metyu gets banned, you can ban me as well

Hi Clovis1122, even tho we texted sometimes back then, I can't really say that i know you for good, so i don't know if you posted this to troll and make fun of (me? or guys who try to act in the interest of the game and the players?), or if you posted this believing it was a reasonable thing to do and believing that what you wrote is a good point (I find hard to believe this second one is the case, but I've been told that apperently it usually is).
But, wheter the case is, I want to thank you for it, since your post made me come back here in this long thread to portray the situation of the game to everyone, including those who are to busy in real life and have not been around theese past times.

1
The activity of the game is today at his minimum since i joined atwar (april 2020). This is not an opinion, this is an undeniable fact, even the game owner cant negate it (he is indeed arguing that the decrease of the activity has just followed his natural course that already begun back then and that was not influenced by banning the players that contributed keeping high standars in the skill and the gameplay; even if this is in my opinion logically wrong, it is impossible to prove it with mere numbers). The activity decreased by number of active players (in the rapid rooms, in the casual rooms, espetially the newbie one, and of course in the coalition war rooms, and in the active players in the server in total), aswell as in the numbers of duels and wars played (wich, for Dave and for you, are totally irrelevant apperently), and also in the numbers of scenarios played and hosted (including the decrease in the quality of those, since they commonly have some requirement to be played properly). Once again those are not opinions, theese are things we saw with our eyes. You can ask to the people that were active in the game, not just me but everyone from many different backgrounds and different parts of the community (not just the competitive that you guys seems to hate): Palm, Tungston, Alpen, Metyu, Dominicano, IHY, Ted, Khauman, Hineni, Swenden, wojoo, Barstool, Spartans300, pvppro, Smugler, Estus, ulvi, fosforat, Puma, Tiger, Stopmonkey, Alfa159, CroatiaSoccer, and others i am forgetting to mention right now. They will all tell you the same thing, because they have been HERE trying to play the game (in the many ways it can be explored), while you have been busy or hidden waiting for some moment like yesterday to do your deed...

2
Yesterday events are proof to a couple of things. One being the impressive selfishness from a great portion of scenario players and their inability to be nice to other people and to each other. The second is what have been said by me and others, and confirmed by comments i can't see anymore, probably removed: the fact that no matter how many people you will bann, toxic people will always be around, and if bullying other players like you did yesterday, preventing them from learning anything and just making fun of them is not toxic enough for you, then I very much question your ability to draw the "line" that has been referred to about the toxic matter.
For those who were not here I will briefly give some context of what happened.
You and other scenario players that have been in hybernation for years (in the rapid games lobby apart from random and troll games, because i can already hear you typing "wdym i play some casual stuff" or "hey I just played that 50k world game with 3 people last week"), all came togheter to play one ww2 game (NEU), probably scheduled from the discord of scenario people that i left years ago exactly because of the trollness I spoke above^^ And in this game you people picked all accordingly the same faction leaving every other people on purpose picks from the other faction, unfortunatly the game started without me realizing what was happening (I was almost ending an other game, as GIGI said i should have left that turn 1 not turn 7). When it became obvious the tiring outcome that would have been imposed to players like Estus or Alfa or Natka i left the game taking responsability for it to end (I was of course not the victim, I tried to save the victims from your bullying fun and humiliation).

3
This kind of toxic little games have always happened wheter Dave have seen them or not, but as Grand Inquisitor said, if you have more players, if you have a decently active community, you will also manage to host and play games that make sense, that are actually good, nice, and fun (for everyone in them).
In fact, speaking of scenario rapid games (since you are hostiles to the competitive part of the game), there are really few people left, to the point that is daily impossible to host a scenario that takes more then 4 people (and I am speaking about peak times like weekend evening), and I must thank those few that are still around (like Barstool, Metyu or Alfa, a new guy that, despite the infintite list of problems of this dying game, is still heroicly trying to fit in and learn stuff), if that little westfront of 4 people sometimes start.

4
This last point is more of a personal one. For the whole time I've been in this game.
You have no fucking idea about the energy I have always put in trying to host scenario games, and make them balanced and fun for everyone. Every time when there has been a small light of chance of starting those ww1 or neu or ostfront or simplified ww2, I've always tried to reach everyone (espetially when I still was in the discord server) and help the hosts of the games sharing link where it was possible and profitable, and always sending private messages to everyone to arrange balanced teams and explaining (lowranks espetially) the need and the benefit of switching (not to mention the coaching to the lowranks aswell). I've always tried to reach everyone and make the best for everyone INCLUDING you or siri or others. Pointless to say that I will no longer waste my time with you hopeless people. As i said in he beginning I've never known you for good, I am certainly not interested in doing it now.

I really pray that the game as a whole is not hopeless aswell, but owner ignoring feedbacks suggest otherwise. I still don't understand what is the danger in unbanning people that are not hackers, without making them moderators or vice-president-whatever. I don't understand it because in 7 pages of thread it has not been said once. It has been said that low activity is better then bad activity (where I agree), but it hasnt been written what is exaclty this "bad". Is it farming or unsposrtmanship? We had it, we will always have it. Is it toxicity? Well, read above Dave, you will never get rid of that, unless you bann everyone that speaks, including and espetially your subordinates.

Why is clovis creating a strawman, then attacking the said strawman and not addressing the post at hand? Is he mentally sound as a person at this point? too much slurpy?

Soo you saying hosting one - 11 player scen on sunday evening is a great succes?

Imagine if you had 30 players instead of 11, maybe you could fill the lobby with trusted players as we always did. I must be briliant to come up with this. Lol

Banned players are a problem and all, but what about this. We tried to play NEU yesterday, an 11-players quick game scenario. Then, this happened:



And the WW1 game failed cuz trolling, too. We may be able to fill games regardless of a few banned players, but we can't stop trolls/leavers from ruining some of them...

---

P.S: bonus meme


P.S #2: as a random casual player said a few days ago:

Alıntı yap:

Do you guys use atWar forums? lol.
And I thought I had free time

I thought boywind got banned for 7 days, but he got perma banned. Are you guys for real right now?

Waffel is paranoid and excessive but truly Dave, it's Time to make things right

Either delete this thread and go on with your deletion plan or unban all (the game would bé much better off)

Alıntı yap:

Why not go play Minecraft or Animal Crossing or Roblox or something else that is more social friendly then?

Lol as I already said, there's already other turn based multiplayer strategy games and people behave like actual humans, atWar being a war game doesn't mean people have to hate eachother's souls or something like that, not even in real life war has it usually been like that, prime example after the US civil war ended, the then general Ulysses Grant treated Robert Lee with respect.

Alıntı yap:

And of course, there is this type of toxic people, who were always toxic and never got banned, simply because they were good with the owner (prime example is Croat). I'm not sure if there is any point to talk fairness in this game anymore.

I don't know about Croat "toxicity", which says a lot, it means he doesn't display himself in public like that a lot, and thus doesn't scare off the newer people coming in.

UNBAN BOYSMITH JONES, WE WANT JUSTICE, WE WANT JUSTICE

WE WANT JUSTICE, WE WANT JUSTICE, WE WANT REVENGE, WE WANT PEACE, WE WANT JUSTICE, WE WANT JUSTICE, UNBAN MY FRIENDS, WE WANT JUSTICE, WE WANT JUSTICE

Alıntı yap:

So if you're going to refer to any criminal laws, either do it right or don't forget to mention that you're referring to the criminal law systems of dictatorial regimes, because according to your own words, you clearly don't believe in any democratic values in this game.

> Forms mobs that chases away new players
> Complains about democratic values not being upheld
Me: ?

Funny to read how the owner doesnt care at all. First 4nic got banned for 7 days, that destroyed 1 casual scenario, then boywind got banned, remake of the last casual scen destroyed, for a stupid sentence.

Been here for 12 years, half of my friends got banned other half quit forever cuz there friends got banned for a stupid reason. Never even tried to talk to mods or owner cuz It clearly doesnt lead anywhere.

Every month there is a New bug that makes playing worse, but when clovis needs a turn reset, thats then prio number 1.

Meh you guys are all delusional, I can speak for myself, I only stayed because of persistence and atWar's uniqueness and I like maps, especially the custom scenarios, if I wasn't persistent I would've left after rank 6, since the community definitely is a problem and it is also a reason I hesitate to recommend atWar from other turn based browser games (which I won't even mention so they don't get brigaded/hacked/DDoSed, lol, that's how bad atWar "community" is)
I maybe got a few people make a new account or guest account here but I'm sure most of them didn't stick around.
It is also a large reason I take big breaks, there's just "greener pastures" than here, even if not having exactly the same mechanics.

1 slight criticism I might have is in the future direction, either make this entirely "family-friendly", or not, and also a complete theme makeover and relatively cheap promotional campaigns can be done over the internet.
Adding AI (at least rules based AI) and quality of life features such as rally points alongside the existing auto recruit, would come a long way.

Maybe also a map editor overhaul, to make it less hard to make maps, with a GUI integrated scripting system? Nowadays it isn't too hard to accomplish such.

Tarafından yazıldı Metyu, 14.04.2025 at 02:10

Tarafından yazıldı Rock Lee, 13.04.2025 at 23:10

I tried to host it for 30 minutes. There were literally 30 people specctating the lobby and only 4 joined.

Pussies. This kind of behaviour is why their role model Waffel should be IP banned forever.

We hosted and played a game before you hosted it. You were a bit late.

Tarafından yazıldı 4nic Smith, 11.04.2025 at 10:10

Where capital?

Istanbul

Tarafından yazıldı Rock Lee, 13.04.2025 at 23:10

I tried to host it for 30 minutes. There were literally 30 people specctating the lobby and only 4 joined.

Pussies. This kind of behaviour is why their role model Waffel should be IP banned forever.

We hosted and played a game before you hosted it. You were a bit late.

Tarafından yazıldı Dave, 13.04.2025 at 18:57

Agree to disagree. And anyway I'm very close to doing another wave of deletions, and if I do it will be much bigger than 2021 was. I have studied the numbers (I'm a data guy after all) and mathematically it's a very small percentage (<1%) of active atWar players who cause 99% of the drama and problems. I would very much like to weed them out once and for all.

The 1% (I'll call them this for ease of argument, not to inflate their egos any further) like to think they are the only active players on atWar. They are almost all comp players. They almost completely ignore all other communities and types of atWar players. There are a ton of casual players, for example, who have always been there playing the game quietly and not causing drama. Deleting the 1% won't hurt us at all in the other communities, and it would benefit us in other ways. For example there is a steady stream of new players all the time who COULD be nurtured and mentored, rather than stomped on by the 1%. I've been talking about this and the retention problem in general for a long time, but nobody in the 1% seemed to listen. For them, if there isn't a CW going on at any given moment, then the "game is dead" and there's absolutely nothing else here of value. It's a very narrow view of atWar.

I would be totally fine with deleting the entire comp community, maybe even removing CWs and Duels as options. At one time I did invest a bunch of time trying to make them happy, to no avail. Now I've concluded that whole area is nothing but trouble. I really am fine with the idea of atWar being forums with a casual game attached to it.

I'm sorry to say this, but you don't know your community at all. Since when do sirivann, Grand Inquisitor, woojoo and many more come from the competitive scene? There are many other people from different communities who have posted messages here.

Tarafından yazıldı Weisser Wolf, 13.04.2025 at 19:52

Dave, I hope you don't ignore this post and I really hope I don't end up banned for expressing my opinion regarding this. If what you want is to remove all traces of toxicity, the competitive community are by far not the most toxic, in the casual scene there are also and it's even worse as you get banned just for winning a game or for not sticking to their "rules" which in reality they are not.

My specific point is, "toxicity", as Khauman rightly said is an inherent part of the game, it's not just part of the competitive scene. And it will always be something associated to this kind of games, I give an example: Conflict of Nations, a pay per win game that always ends in a rain of insults to the one who allies to the "whales" (that's what they call there to the players who invest money to win faster) and they don't ban the players for that, maybe at most a warn but in that game they generally only ban for exploiting bugs.

Even in the era when RP games dominated atwar there was some healthy toxicity between those who allied or attacked, so I refuse to believe that you are willing to eliminate the competitive part of the game, being that there have even been cases of players of other types of games here at atwar who have played competitive or have reinforced their learning curve by playing it.

I hope this post won't go away ignored.

Your point is well taken. There seems to be this misconception that I want to turn atWar into some politically-correct toxic-free safe space. I don't want that. I never have. There's nothing wrong with some "healthy toxicity' (I like that phrase, I'm gonna use it if you don't mind). Passion runs deep, tempers flare, that's normal. The outbursts can be entertaining to watch, even for me. And I really don't care what words people use -- nigger, cunt, fuck, whatever... they're all just words. What matters is the context.

I originally set out on this campaign against toxicity to 1) make the AW environment a little more friendly towards newbies, so they'll stay around more, and 2) make the forums a little more intelligent and respectful, and therefore more interesting to participate in. It's not about the "healthy toxicity" between people who know each other and have some sort of rapport. It's about the truly awful people we had hanging around who would say just the worst things to people (I'm not gonna name names because I don't want to summon them, but I'm sure you can imagine who I'm referring to). Why would anyone be against this kind of reform?

Well anyway we started with mutes and that largely didn't work, because people would just make new accounts to continue spewing. So we progressed to bans. That didn't work much better. So now we've moved on to deleting people permanently. Plus IP bans and device bans and other things. We'll do whatever we have to do until people get the point.

And then there's the issue of disrespecting my staff and myself. That was something I didn't expect, but at some point the effort to clean up AW spawned these personal vendettas against me and my staff. I will not tolerate it. I will defend my staff (and myself) the same way I defend my employees of my other businesses from disrespectful customers. I have gladly thrown customers out before, and I will do it again whenever necessary. Thankfully it doesn't happen too often, maybe because people behave themselves a little better in real life. But here on atWar, behind the safety of a keyboard, people attack us like crazy. If they do, they should prepare to get deleted and banned.

I don't mind if people express opinions I disagree with; I don't mind if people criticize me; I don't care if people don't like me. That's all fine as far as I'm concerned. But I will never accept people being rude or disrespectful to my staff or myself. Not in my own "house" as it were.

I tried to host it for 30 minutes. There were literally 30 people specctating the lobby and only 4 joined.

Pussies. This kind of behaviour is why their role model Waffel should be IP banned forever.

Did Dave really just say he wanted to remove CWs and Duels. This is a war game right....... Oh well you either have people over seas trying to make a 1 million dollars or People trying to kill their own game.

Dave, I hope you don't ignore this post and I really hope I don't end up banned for expressing my opinion regarding this. If what you want is to remove all traces of toxicity, the competitive community are by far not the most toxic, in the casual scene there are also and it's even worse as you get banned just for winning a game or for not sticking to their "rules" which in reality they are not.

My specific point is, "toxicity", as Khauman rightly said is an inherent part of the game, it's not just part of the competitive scene. And it will always be something associated to this kind of games, I give an example: Conflict of Nations, a pay per win game that always ends in a rain of insults to the one who allies to the "whales" (that's what they call there to the players who invest money to win faster) and they don't ban the players for that, maybe at most a warn but in that game they generally only ban for exploiting bugs.

Even in the era when RP games dominated atwar there was some healthy toxicity between those who allied or attacked, so I refuse to believe that you are willing to eliminate the competitive part of the game, being that there have even been cases of players of other types of games here at atwar who have played competitive or have reinforced their learning curve by playing it.

I hope this post won't go away ignored.

While I do understand Dave's stance, i think it is pretty comical how previous staff members and even current one don't agree with his sentiment, of course everyone can come to their own conclusions and obviously everyone is set on their opinions. i do hope everyone remembers that there is more to atwar than being to able play, this game was made by the text and forums, and the trollingness in my scenario games today made me remember that I hate a lot of you guys for being fags but at the same time you were what made atwar great, so sleep well at night knowing that there was lots of fun to be had and lots of fun to have later

Tarafından yazıldı Waffelo, 13.04.2025 at 19:28

Could you come online and talk about this instead of putting words in my mouth and making up assumptions and accusations? And you're saying that I'm being combative..

No Waffel, I've already wasted too much time on your silly drama. Here I am making the same mistake again of spending too much time talking to the community. I'm going to go off and do real work now. Read my words and understand them -- or don't. There's nothing more I can say.

Okay I'm going to help you translate your Waffel-speak into understandable sentences:

Tarafından yazıldı Waffelo, 13.04.2025 at 18:02

Tarafından yazıldı Dave, 11.04.2025 at 03:03

I still haven't read all your posts because its too much. Can you tell me in like 2-3 sentences what exactly you want from me?

Like most people in this thread have already commented, I would like for you to reconsider all of that was mentioned and undelete/unban all of the players that got effected during the 2021 stuff, including those that you don't see eye to eye with. Perhaps it's even better to just completely reset all of the bans and to just stop with the destructive anti-toxicity crusade and regimes and muting/banning/deleting players over petty little things like minor insults or calling others pussy (like the boywind case). Only ban players for like hacking/exploiting (serious) bugs, not some bullshit i.e. ''abuse'', and NEVER EVER permanently ban & delete players.

Waffel: Please unban everybody and please don't delete players.

Dave: No. I'm going straight to deleting players a lot more often now, because clearly the years of bans/mutes haven't been working.

And I have no idea what you're talking about but that's not why I deleted boywind.

Tarafından yazıldı Waffelo, 13.04.2025 at 18:02

I think it's agreed upon by the vast majority of the players in this community that the activity and playerbase got to this state due to mostly your staffmembers and the way the whole funpart of this game has been heavily moderated and restricted/censored. So I would propose to remove players from your staffteam that are/were responsible for that and to further stop destroying the game as it is. There is nothing wrong with a bit of innocent banter and fun-toxicity, it's something that has always been a part of this game and almost never went to extreme lengths.

Waffel: Please remove staff members I don't like.

Dave: I assume that's a reference to Sid? Regardless I have no intentions of removing any staff members. They are not the problem, they are a great benefit to the game.

When you say "it's agreed upon by the vast majority of the players in this community", you are undoubtedly talking about the comp community -- the 1% I referred to in my previous post. They are the problem here, not the victims. The true vast majority of atWar players has no problem with the staff, and to be honest probably aren't even aware this silly drama is happening.

Tarafından yazıldı Waffelo, 13.04.2025 at 18:02

So I would propose: start with the removal of Sid from your staffteam as a first step 1, something that you actually should've already done in 2021 when everyone within the community and most of your staffteam told you to do so. Because now years later, he hasn't even been actively involved with the game after he'd literally ripped apart our community in 2021 and he basically turned his back on the game and never returned again. That should really tell you something about all of the things we've said about him now and back then.

Waffel: I hate Sid. Please remove him.

Dave: See, I knew you were talking about Sid before I even read this part. The answer is no. Sid is a good guy, and as far as I can see he's done nothing wrong. (Other than maybe being a little busy now with his real life? So what.)

Tarafından yazıldı Waffelo, 13.04.2025 at 18:02

I wouldn't even be surprised that after all the unbans and the game probably becoming more active again, that he would most likely return back to the game immediately and try to dictate his own views and opinions once again. So I think it's better not to give him that chance again.

Waffel: I hate Sid.

Dave: Sheesh, enough already.

Tarafından yazıldı Waffelo, 13.04.2025 at 18:02

And if you're really not willing to do any of the things said above, and actually still hold on to your own ego and stubbornness, I think the only thing that would be left is for you to perhaps find someone to sell the game to that would actually love see this game thrive again and whom would wholeheartedly listen to his players and community.

Waffel: If you don't agree with me, it's because of your ego and stubbornness.

Dave: I don't agree with you and it has nothing to do with ego or stubbornness. I have responded to you and lots of other people in this thread to explain my reasons. If you aren't willing to listen, that's on you.

Also I'm not selling atWar, so you can forget about that idea already. I would love to see the game thrive again just like anyone else, but I will pursue that in my own way when I have time. Until then, enjoy the silly time capsule that this place is.

Tarafından yazıldı Waffelo, 13.04.2025 at 17:39

Look Dave, I appreciate you sharing that screenshot of my history, for the sake of transparency and owning up to being in the wrong here. Makes you wonder how right I am about all the other things I've mentioned and claimed in my posts before hehe..

I knew you were going to say that. I give an inch, you take a mile. My only interest is in speaking precisely, and accurately. If I'm wrong, I correct myself. Otherwise, I'm not wrong.

Tarafından yazıldı Waffelo, 13.04.2025 at 17:39

All jokes aside though (I wasn't joking tbh), it also makes you wonder how much of all these bans/deleting/archiving of players their accounts and their threads/posts, and basically all the personal vendetta's/conflicts between players and staffteam members are perhaps (maybe not all of them) based on miscommunications like this, or wrong impressions/jumping to wrong conclusions or even blatant lies and/or misconceptions, and perhaps all of that only escalated further and further and ended up like we are here right now.

Most, I'm sure.

Tarafından yazıldı Waffelo, 13.04.2025 at 17:39

Tarafından yazıldı Dave, 11.04.2025 at 02:56

I still don't remember why I deleted your account, but oh well. You must have annoyed me

You got mad because of all the posts/threads, and some of the staffmembers and Sid constantly causing more discussions and shit on the discords and within the community, and decided to just ban all of us for the sake of making all of the ''drama'' disappear. Which is what caused the domino effect of most people that disagreed with the bannings to eventually leave the game and most of them never returning.

I don't think Sid or any other staff members caused those issues, we were always only reacting to you guys. But the rest of your statement sounds about right, I'm not going to argue with it.

Tarafından yazıldı Dave, 11.04.2025 at 02:56

I still think banning people for something small like that was a really bad judgement call of yours and the fact that after all these years, you still claim that you don't regret banning and deleting people and that you actually regret not doing it faster, is what makes a lot of people that commented on this thread lose all hope on this game, which would most likely even result in more of the remaining players leaving the game and probably never return again.

Agree to disagree. And anyway I'm very close to doing another wave of deletions, and if I do it will be much bigger than 2021 was. I have studied the numbers (I'm a data guy after all) and mathematically it's a very small percentage (<1%) of active atWar players who cause 99% of the drama and problems. I would very much like to weed them out once and for all.

The 1% (I'll call them this for ease of argument, not to inflate their egos any further) like to think they are the only active players on atWar. They are almost all comp players. They almost completely ignore all other communities and types of atWar players. There are a ton of casual players, for example, who have always been there playing the game quietly and not causing drama. Deleting the 1% won't hurt us at all in the other communities, and it would benefit us in other ways. For example there is a steady stream of new players all the time who COULD be nurtured and mentored, rather than stomped on by the 1%. I've been talking about this and the retention problem in general for a long time, but nobody in the 1% seemed to listen. For them, if there isn't a CW going on at any given moment, then the "game is dead" and there's absolutely nothing else here of value. It's a very narrow view of atWar.

I would be totally fine with deleting the entire comp community, maybe even removing CWs and Duels as options. At one time I did invest a bunch of time trying to make them happy, to no avail. Now I've concluded that whole area is nothing but trouble. I really am fine with the idea of atWar being forums with a casual game attached to it.