Crimea Join Russia FOR THE MOTHER LAND!

Tarafından yazıldı x___, 20.03.2014 at 19:58

I didnt even bother reading this but plz close down this crap -_-

people are actually being killed over this conflict by the russians. it isnt joining the motherland - its being conquered. either way, stupid move for putin

show us proof that people were killed. And...

One does not simply conquer, when they are invited in and the people vote to be with the ''Invaders''.

Tarafından yazıldı Guest, 20.03.2014 at 16:56

Tarafından yazıldı zombieyeti, 20.03.2014 at 16:17

Tarafından yazıldı Guest, 20.03.2014 at 13:51

Tarafından yazıldı zombieyeti, 20.03.2014 at 13:23

Tarafından yazıldı Guest, 20.03.2014 at 12:34

Tarafından yazıldı zombieyeti, 20.03.2014 at 09:44

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Alıntı yap:

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I can only speculate regarding status quo. My speculation is that the Western Media:

1. Accepts the legitimacy of the Crim. Parl. claim to self-determination, but considers the status quo, pre-referendum, to be that Crimea is a political subdivision of Ukraine.
A plain reading of the English translation of the (clumsily translated) Declaration of Independence of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and Sevastopol indicates the intention of Crimea and Sevastopol, not the current state. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Independence_of_the_Republic_of_Crimea

2. Does not consider the Crim. Parl. Declaration of Independence legally legitimate, and in any case considers the status quo, pre-referendum, to be that Crimea is a political subdivision of Ukraine.

Alıntı yap:

Also how do you think the Crimean parliament is tenuous?

The legitimacy of both the current government of the Ukraine and the actions of the Crimean Parliament are at question, because of the extraordinary circumstances. Legitimacy, in this case, stems from legality, not force. Democracy is messy even in mature political systems with centuries of tradition.

The USA had over 80 years of legal tradition to look to when secession was attempted by several subnational units (states). Nothing explicitly forbade states from leaving the federal republic, and nothing expressly permitted the use of force at the Federal level to reintegrate them. Obviously the seceding states were violently reintergrated: If they were independent, they were conquered and incorporated. If they were not independent, they were in rebellion and re-incorporated.

How exactly does option 2 on the referendum not fufill western requirments then? By becoming a subdivision of Ukraine.

And you said that the parliment of Crimea was tenuous and westerners saw it as illegitimate. So a voted in goverment in place before the uprising is illegitimate how!?!? So is every single goverment position not put into place by the new Kiev goverment illegitimate? Is being voted in meaning you have weak authority? What makes them illegitimate?

Repeat: I can only speculate why they considered the Status Quo to not be offered.
Speculate is like Conjecture is like Guess. I guessed on what others might have been thinking based on some evidence.

I said the legal legitimacy of the Ukr. Gov. tenuous and the legality of the actions of the Crim. Parl. were tenuous. Tenuous, in this case means "not absolutely firmly rooted in law".

Historically, legitimacy came down only to violence. Might makes right. Necessity knows no law. That which is necessary is legal. etc. Having a balanced separation of powers (Judicial, Executive, Legislative) and Rule of Law, with the government subject to the Rule of Law are qualities of government which make democracy different from Ochlocracy/Mob Rule.

Alıntı yap:

How exactly does option 2 on the referendum not fufill western requirments then? By becoming a subdivision of Ukraine.

Because it affirms that Crimea is already independent of Ukraine, then asks the voter if the would like to (in your words) 'become' - or change from one state to another, different, future state.

And again, I was guessing, conjecturing, speculating on the Western Media's assertion about no status quo.

Tarafından yazıldı Goblin, 20.03.2014 at 13:32

Tito, im not taking you serious anymore. Your stories about friendship and love are geting ridicilous ...but as it seems that you were raised only on serbian version of the "truth" ...which is i have to say, like from an alternate universe in comparison to croatian.

btw. the number of dead serbs are changing in your posts. First it was 1 milion now its 2 milions, when in fact does numbers are blown out of proportions by serbian and britain propaganda ...not to make crime of 350,000 killed serbs less horrible. There where 100,000 ustasha members in NDH ...but 300,000 croats were killed in retaliation allowed by drug Tito after WW2. But hey that was the wining side ...no one can judge the wining side, only the losing one. History is written by winners.

p.s. serbian quisling's (Nedićeva Srbija - fascist puppet state) were proud to inform the fuhrer that serbia was first "juden frei" country in europe.

You do reason a disservice by presenting relevant, rational arguments based on evidence to certain folks. Shame on you.

Tarafından yazıldı Guest, 21.03.2014 at 05:22

Tarafından yazıldı x___, 20.03.2014 at 19:58

I didnt even bother reading this but plz close down this crap -_-

people are actually being killed over this conflict by the russians. it isnt joining the motherland - its being conquered. either way, stupid move for putin

show us proof that people were killed. And...

One does not simply conquer, when they are invited in and the people vote to be with the ''Invaders''.

dont be an ass. you know im from the ukraine and I talk everyday with my family. westerners are getting blamed for coming into towns on trucks and cars and literally gunning people down. russia is just hiring people to do that and building on the stereotype of the maidan. many people have been killed and beaten and tortured for supporting ukraine in "pro-russian areas". it is stupid and unfair that russia is torturing the ukrainian population into submission. I dont want to hear anyone saying that im lieing because people have seen this with their own eyes how people are forced to do things.

Tarafından yazıldı Guest, 20.03.2014 at 18:29

And you said that the parliment of Crimea was tenuous and westerners saw it as illegitimate. So a voted in goverment in place before the uprising is illegitimate how!?!? So is every single goverment position not put into place by the new Kiev goverment illegitimate? Is being voted in meaning you have weak authority? What makes them illegitimate?

I was trying to be polite. You abused my good will. I made some educated guesses, couched in the indefinite to spare your feelings, you attack me. So, I'll speak in the language you might understand.
===
- Crimea's "independence" is mob rule legitimized by Putin's force.
Everyone knows this. It's a joke to think otherwise. It was "let's have a vote while men with guns are all around"

The questions might very well have been:
1) Do you want to Join Russia with your region/city/village left intact?
2) Do you want to Join Russia after T80s have torn apart your region/city/village?
3) There is no three.

- Mob rule is not democracy. Counting noses is not democracy. Majoritarian Rule is not democracy. Modern democracy requires the Rule of Law, a government subject to the Rule of Law, periodic and regular election of representatives, and separation and balance of Judicial, Legislative and Executive branches of government.
If Crimea changes its mind in the future, do we think for one second that Putin will simply let them go?

I don't expect you to know what these words mean because the Democracy is newer to your country than the Personal Computer, and this is being generous.

- The Crimean people may very well have wanted to join Russia, or be independent, or rejoin Ukraine.
But rather than bring these questions up within the existing legal framework (which is inconvenient and time-consuming) just take advantage of the chaos caused by Russia in Kiev, to slice off another piece of a former SSR and roll it into the Irredentist Empire of Orthodox Putinania.

- I'll acknowledge that in North America, except for the large Canadian and American Slavic communities, and professionally-impacted people like me, most didn't and don't care. For them, it's just been one comedy after another in the vague totalitarian Clown Town that is anything east of Germany, and populated mostly by whatever they'd consider 'white people', providing irritating distractions from celebrity news from Chernobyl through today.

The US government definitely cares, but the American people? Nah. So Western media doesn't generally care, until you get closer to Ukraine, geographically.

Tarafından yazıldı Skanderbeg, 21.03.2014 at 07:29

Tarafından yazıldı zombieyeti, 21.03.2014 at 06:17

Tarafından yazıldı Goblin, 20.03.2014 at 13:32

Tito, im not taking you serious anymore. Your stories about friendship and love are geting ridicilous ...but as it seems that you were raised only on serbian version of the "truth" ...which is i have to say, like from an alternate universe in comparison to croatian.

btw. the number of dead serbs are changing in your posts. First it was 1 milion now its 2 milions, when in fact does numbers are blown out of proportions by serbian and britain propaganda ...not to make crime of 350,000 killed serbs less horrible. There where 100,000 ustasha members in NDH ...but 300,000 croats were killed in retaliation allowed by drug Tito after WW2. But hey that was the wining side ...no one can judge the wining side, only the losing one. History is written by winners.

p.s. serbian quisling's (Nedićeva Srbija - fascist puppet state) were proud to inform the fuhrer that serbia was first "juden frei" country in europe.

You do reason a disservice by presenting relevant, rational arguments based on evidence to certain folks. Shame on you.

Your trolling is fun, so i will reply: He never gave actual proof and documentation. Just empty words '' he did that and they did this''.

I acknowledge that I have read your post.

Tarafından yazıldı zombieyeti, 21.03.2014 at 08:00

Tarafından yazıldı x___, 21.03.2014 at 06:19

Tarafından yazıldı Guest, 21.03.2014 at 05:22

Tarafından yazıldı x___, 20.03.2014 at 19:58

I didnt even bother reading this but plz close down this crap -_-

people are actually being killed over this conflict by the russians. it isnt joining the motherland - its being conquered. either way, stupid move for putin

show us proof that people were killed. And...

One does not simply conquer, when they are invited in and the people vote to be with the ''Invaders''.

dont be an ass. you know im from the ukraine and I talk everyday with my family. westerners are getting blamed for coming into towns on trucks and cars and literally gunning people down. russia is just hiring people to do that and building on the stereotype of the maidan. many people have been killed and beaten and tortured for supporting ukraine in "pro-russian areas". it is stupid and unfair that russia is torturing the ukrainian population into submission. I dont want to hear anyone saying that im lieing because people have seen this with their own eyes how people are forced to do things.

I hope your family is safe!
---
Fairness doesn't matter to those who see the capacity for violence as the only legitimacy. Fairness is a concept only when there is respect for the Rule of Law.
- Two children, one pie. One child cuts the pie with the knife, and hands the knife to the other child to choose one portion. Both eat half the pie. Fairness.
- Two children, one pie. One child cuts the pie with the knife, and hands the knife to the other child to choose one portion. The other child vaguely threatens the first child with the knife and says "Referendum! I will eat the whole pie. Choose whether I start with the left, or if I start with the right."

Tarafından yazıldı Guest, 21.03.2014 at 07:50

Tarafından yazıldı zombieyeti, 21.03.2014 at 07:45

Tarafından yazıldı Guest, 20.03.2014 at 18:29

There is no point in asking questions if you already have "your" answer.

Thank you for showing people who read this thread pindosy blindness.

I asked questions because I couldn't believe that such a sham could even be conceived as legitimate, if accurately translated. Western media outlets are not perfect, and do have a particular anti-Putin bias as of late. I recognize the bias, and sought an answer.

When you asked I took educated guesses as to why others might have opined something.

Then you attack me for taking guesses!

Since you've attempted to discredit my reply simply because I'm an American (or did you mean 'Jew'?), allow me to retort.

I know the vast majority of people, worldwide, have almost no experience with rule of law, accountable government, freedom of thought, expression, association or travel - this does not mean they don't have a opinion on the matter.

Rather than discuss the merits of our opinions you chose to attack me. I invoke the absolute human right to Self-Defense.

Being lectured by a Russian on the legitimacy of democratic processes is like being educated by a cat on how to best conquer a Stellar Empire. Now, I don't think the previous statement is fair or logically valid. But if you want to play nationality games, tell me: Do I start with mice, or with catnip?

Edit:
I thought of replying to your dismissal of my reply, based on my nationality with a reply of my own. Horrible denigrating words for all kinds of other nationalities and ethnicities do exist in the American hate-speech lexicon, but I really can't think of one for Russians.

What does that tell you?
---
As a frequent reader of both the Chinese and Indian press, it is clear that the Indians are obsessed with Chinese hegemony, but the Chinese rarely even mention India.

What does that tell you?

Zombie, there were Intl obervers, they debunked the ''voting at gun point'' thing.

Tarafından yazıldı x___, 21.03.2014 at 06:19

Tarafından yazıldı Guest, 21.03.2014 at 05:22

Tarafından yazıldı x___, 20.03.2014 at 19:58

I didnt even bother reading this but plz close down this crap -_-

people are actually being killed over this conflict by the russians. it isnt joining the motherland - its being conquered. either way, stupid move for putin

show us proof that people were killed. And...

One does not simply conquer, when they are invited in and the people vote to be with the ''Invaders''.

dont be an ass. you know im from the ukraine and I talk everyday with my family. westerners are getting blamed for coming into towns on trucks and cars and literally gunning people down. russia is just hiring people to do that and building on the stereotype of the maidan. many people have been killed and beaten and tortured for supporting ukraine in "pro-russian areas". it is stupid and unfair that russia is torturing the ukrainian population into submission. I dont want to hear anyone saying that im lieing because people have seen this with their own eyes how people are forced to do things.

Don't be an ass. You know I'm from Crimea and I talk everyday to my family. Russians are getting blamed for coming in towns and cars and litteraly gunning people down. The West is just hiring people to do that and building on a stereotype of Russia. Many people have been killed and beaten and tortured for supporting Russia in''pro Kiev areas''. It is stupid and unfair that The West is torturing the pro-Russian population into submission. I don't want to hear anyone saying I'm lying because people have seen this with their own eyes and have been forced to do things.

That was pretty stupid black shark. clearly you are from krym. CLEARLY. if you were from krym, you would also know that not even half of the population voted. the tatars protested the vote. the pro-russian leader of krym is on the run. russians arent even getting touched in krym. yet - there are a ton of videas showing ukrainians beat in krym.

Tarafından yazıldı Goblin, 21.03.2014 at 10:27

According to some people on this forums:

- Ukrainian people who defend their country against russian imperialism = nazis, puppets of west
- Russian nationalist who have stolen a piece of Ukrainian country = good people who just want to be with their brothers russians and spread love and peace

Pffft!!!!

Dude, do you even news? There was an referedum with intl observers.

And how does one defend their country by beating people, like the head of the state run news channel, beating a pro-russian activist leader?

Tarafından yazıldı Skanderbeg, 21.03.2014 at 11:10

Tarafından yazıldı Goblin, 21.03.2014 at 10:50

Lol prove that the people in the photos are ukrainians and not russians ...pfft.

btw. girl in the last photo is obviously having a false forced smile. omg looks like she is gona cry ...you fuckin bastards.

They are russians who live in ukraine, have ukrainian citizenship. I dont know if you mean that if ethnic origin is russian he must be bad?

Obviously you never saw excited girl havent you. She is surrounded by 3 russians who are in the same time soldiers. Russian + uniform = hot, by cosmopolitan.

well, first: ofc, Russians are happy to be safe in crimea, but now ukrainians aren't. you argumented with soldiers not hurting ukrainians, and now you are posting russians smiling.
so everything you saied makes no sense, please tell me more lies

second: whow, did you smoke some weed? i have a girlfried, but she is angry about russia conquering crimea too, i'd rather say this girl is afraid by guns xD

Tarafından yazıldı Skanderbeg, 21.03.2014 at 11:44

Tarafından yazıldı Tirpitz406, 21.03.2014 at 11:35

well, first: ofc, Russians are happy to be safe in crimea, but now ukrainians aren't. you argumented with soldiers not hurting ukrainians, and now you are posting russians smiling.
so everything you saied makes no sense, please tell me more lies

second: whow, did you smoke some weed? i have a girlfried, but she is angry about russia conquering crimea too, i'd rather say this girl is afraid by guns xD

CNN and BBC spam how Krim is awful place now, warzone is there, people looting and raping, its worse than afhganistan. Well here it is, no warzone, people mind their own business, having fun, spring idyll.

well, it's true that it's no warzone, but still, ukrainians in crimea are very scared these days...

Tarafından yazıldı Guest, 21.03.2014 at 09:59

Zombie, there were Intl obervers, they debunked the ''voting at gun point'' thing.

Pro-Putin international observers...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1v_lu6qcyk&feature=share&list=PLw613M86o5o7DfgzuUCd_PVwbOCDO472B&index=3

Tarafından yazıldı Skanderbeg, 21.03.2014 at 10:49

With cameras so cheap everyone can purshase one and as you can see they take photos with soldiers, no killing and torturing on sight.

Keep with your lies westerns, but Russia prevail o7

Some have been brave enough to try to report on the violence, the referendum and the militia. They face the constant threat of being arrested and/or beaten by the local militia. Soon, I expect local news agencies like ATR - that aren't pro-Putin - will be closed down (new law banning "pro-seperatist" media). Then we will get even less reports from their point of view. There is no real democracy without freedom of press.
Here is one report on the killing of a Tatar man in Crimea. He was taken and beaten to death by Cossacks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoZwWzYBBkc&list=PLw613M86o5o7DfgzuUCd_PVwbOCDO472B&index=3

Tarafından yazıldı Guest, 21.03.2014 at 10:29

Tarafından yazıldı Goblin, 21.03.2014 at 10:27

According to some people on this forums:

- Ukrainian people who defend their country against russian imperialism = nazis, puppets of west
- Russian nationalist who have stolen a piece of Ukrainian country = good people who just want to be with their brothers russians and spread love and peace

Pffft!!!!

Dude, do you even news? There was an referedum with intl observers.

And how does one defend their country by beating people, like the head of the state run news channel, beating a pro-russian activist leader?

Now, what I read is that OCSE observers were repeatedly turned away at gunpoint.
The identity or legitimacy of the repulsers wasn't established, because they were often masked.

Similarly, the 'international observers' weakly met the criteria. They were 'not from the Ukraine' (international) and were able to view the voting (observers). No internationally-recognized, objective, credible monitors were present.
No objective exit-polling was permitted. Exit polls, if in wide variance from the voting results, detect voting fraud.

Objective: 'Disinterested' - Has no stake in the outcome of the polls.

I can litter this post with links if you want evidence.

Tarafından yazıldı Guest, 21.03.2014 at 09:59

Zombie, there were Intl obervers, they debunked the ''voting at gun point'' thing.

I never said anyone voted at gunpoint.
I never said no one was coereced either.
I don't know.

The 'international observers' were a sham.
Observers must be disinterested in the outcome. Failing that, they must go in teams, where opposing monitors monitor the election and each other.

Tarafından yazıldı Skanderbeg, 21.03.2014 at 10:35

Tarafından yazıldı zombieyeti, 21.03.2014 at 07:45

I was trying to be polite.

You wasnt polite with Terminal, or with me. You insulted us. But i know you cant understand that.

Tarafından yazıldı zombieyeti, 21.03.2014 at 07:45

- Crimea's "independence" is mob rule legitimized by Putin's force.
Everyone knows this. It's a joke to think otherwise. It was "let's have a vote while men with guns are all around"

Russians sent troops to russian bases on Krim. Crimeans made self-defense forces to defend against nazis in Ukraine. No one forced to vote. Yet 80% of them voted.

Tarafından yazıldı zombieyeti, 21.03.2014 at 07:45

I don't expect you to know what these words mean because the Democracy is newer to your country than the Personal Computer, and this is being generous.

When Russia had democracy your country didnt existed boy. Your america is one of the newest countries on the planet, and no matter how many new countries you declare(kosovo, south sudan, northern republic of cyprus, palestina, taiwan, south korea) USA will always be the kid compared to old Russia and ancient China.

Tarafından yazıldı zombieyeti, 21.03.2014 at 07:45

just take advantage of the chaos caused by Russia in Kiev, to slice off another piece of a former SSR and roll it into the Irredentist Empire of Orthodox Putinania.

USA made mess in ukraine by supporting nazis, Russia is trying to solve problem. You are blaming innocent country. Dont forget it might backfire. Be careful. This isnt US-USSR barking around Berlin 15,000km away from Washingtom and 5,000km from Moscow. This is US-Russia conflict 500km from Moscow. Russia have the right to use nukes, biowep, military and sanctions. Be careful what you wish.

One red button and 15 minutes are between life and eternal death. Be careful what you choose, because there is no going back after red button is pushed. You might wish you stopped your government on time and made peace with Russia.

I acknowledge that I have read your post.

Tarafından yazıldı Skanderbeg, 21.03.2014 at 11:10

Tarafından yazıldı Goblin, 21.03.2014 at 10:50

Lol prove that the people in the photos are ukrainians and not russians ...pfft.

btw. girl in the last photo is obviously having a false forced smile. omg looks like she is gona cry ...you fuckin bastards.

They are russians who live in ukraine, have ukrainian citizenship. I dont know if you mean that if ethnic origin is russian he must be bad?

Obviously you never saw excited girl havent you. She is surrounded by 3 russians who are in the same time soldiers. Russian + uniform = hot, by cosmopolitan.

Yes, in 1945 ask any female, 8-80 in the area roughly from Lithuania to the Balkans, and on to Berlin, how 'excited' they were to be 'surrounded' by Russian soldiers.

Tarafından yazıldı Skanderbeg, 21.03.2014 at 10:49

Tarafından yazıldı Goblin, 21.03.2014 at 10:35

Oh and russians are not beating ukrainians? ...please.

True, they are beating ukrainians, they are pulling their skin from meat it hurts so much that ukrainians are taking pictures with them, drinking tea and laugh.






Im sorry but you lost westerns. With cameras so cheap everyone can purshase one and as you can see they take photos with soldiers, no killing and torturing on sight.

Keep with your lies westerns, but Russia prevail o7

How do you know these are Russian soldiers?

No insignia. No flag on their uniform. Except their rifles, all of their equipment is new. Even their boots are new!

If they were in combat and captured, they could be shot as spies.

Well, there are two clues that they are possibly from a Russian para outfit/elite guards unit.
Edit: By possibly I mean likely. Can you see what I see?
Edit 2: The lack of Insignia is mentioned in the VICE video Grimm posted. Since I may not be available to reply anytime soon, I would guess they're VDV by the flektarn anorak (unusual) and their helmets appear to be GRAU 6Б28 ... hard to tell with the bucket covers

Tarafından yazıldı Grimm, 21.03.2014 at 11:57

Tarafından yazıldı Guest, 21.03.2014 at 09:59

Zombie, there were Intl obervers, they debunked the ''voting at gun point'' thing.

Pro-Putin international observers...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1v_lu6qcyk&feature=share&list=PLw613M86o5o7DfgzuUCd_PVwbOCDO472B&index=3

Vice media. They may get it wrong, but they have absolutely no agenda except to demonstrate the absurdity of the modern condition. I heart them.

Tarafından yazıldı Skanderbeg, 21.03.2014 at 12:57

Tarafından yazıldı Grimm, 21.03.2014 at 12:04

Some have been brave enough to try to report on the violence, the referendum and the militia. They face the constant threat of being arrested and/or beaten by the local militia. Soon, I expect local news agencies like ATR - that aren't pro-Putin - will be closed down (new law banning "pro-seperatist" media). Then we will get even less reports from their point of view. There is no real democracy without freedom of press.
Here is one report on the killing of a Tatar man in Crimea. He was taken and beaten to death by Cossacks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoZwWzYBBkc&list=PLw613M86o5o7DfgzuUCd_PVwbOCDO472B&index=3

You cant report referendum because that mean you report whole nation. Thats stupid. Referendum is the most democratic thing where all nation decide whatever they want.

Russian Roulette youtube channel is western propaganda. It is obvious they send rookies to practise their reporter skills. Lies they tell and show is so obvious.

The Crimeans requested international military and voting observers, but their request was intercepted and rendered moot by Russia. Reason: Crimea did not have standing to request observers, because they weren't independent ... so really, even Russia never considered Crimea 'a nation'.

Tarafından yazıldı Skanderbeg, 21.03.2014 at 13:00

Tarafından yazıldı zombieyeti, 21.03.2014 at 12:41

Yes, in 1945 ask any female, 8-80 in the area roughly from Lithuania to the Balkans, and on to Berlin, how 'excited' they were to be 'surrounded' by Russian soldiers.

Americans and english commited more rapes than russians in WW2. They started spaming propaganda videos and stories to diverse the guilty and crime from themselves.

Many American and English rapists, in 1945, in the triangle defined by Lithuania, the Balkans and Berlin.

Tarafından yazıldı Skanderbeg, 21.03.2014 at 12:57

Tarafından yazıldı Grimm, 21.03.2014 at 12:04

Some have been brave enough to try to report on the violence, the referendum and the militia. They face the constant threat of being arrested and/or beaten by the local militia. Soon, I expect local news agencies like ATR - that aren't pro-Putin - will be closed down (new law banning "pro-seperatist" media). Then we will get even less reports from their point of view. There is no real democracy without freedom of press.
Here is one report on the killing of a Tatar man in Crimea. He was taken and beaten to death by Cossacks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoZwWzYBBkc&list=PLw613M86o5o7DfgzuUCd_PVwbOCDO472B&index=3

You cant report referendum because that mean you report whole nation. Thats stupid. Referendum is the most democratic thing where all nation decide whatever they want.

Russian Roulette youtube channel is western propaganda. It is obvious they send rookies to practise their reporter skills. Lies they tell and show is so obvious.

A referendum is democratic only if it is held by a democratically elected administration. The current Crimean parliament was not democratically elected. It was simply proclaimed under Russian occupation. There should have been elections first and then a referendum. In addition to this, a democratic referendum should allow sufficient time for both sides to campaign. Also very important is that there be no intimidation and threats to voter's safety (militia and unidentified soldiers make it seem unsafe for anti-seperatists to vote). Finally, the transparent voting boxes make people's vote easy to see for all (again leaving the door open to intimidation). This is yet another anomaly.

Russian Roulette is the title of the series. The news agency is called VICE News. I think you meant to say that VICE news is western propaganda. In fact, I think you mean to say that any organization that reports anything wrong with the referendum or with what Russia is doing in Ukraine is western propaganda. I guess this is to be expected since you are one of the main outlets of Russian propaganda in these forums.

That said, I'd like to take you up on your statement about this news agency. You state that VICE News is western propaganda. Even though your reply suggests you have no knowledge of this news agency, you obviously know something I don't. Please share the information you have that backs up this claim. I've watched alot of VICE's reports on other topics. They present some criticism of the US as well as many other European countries. In fact, so do most other US news outlets. The US and all other healthy democracies have a free press that provides a diversity of opinion. I have many problems with some of the individual news organizations but find it laughable that one would simply lump them all together as "western propaganda".

You also state that VICE News is spreading lies in that report. Which lies are these exactly? I will believe reports from journalists present in Crimea at the risk of their lives before I believe empty statements on a gaming forum. They are empty until you provide proof from a credible source.

Tarafından yazıldı Goblin, 21.03.2014 at 13:42

Tarafından yazıldı zombieyeti, 21.03.2014 at 13:25

Tarafından yazıldı Skanderbeg, 21.03.2014 at 13:00

Tarafından yazıldı zombieyeti, 21.03.2014 at 12:41

Yes, in 1945 ask any female, 8-80 in the area roughly from Lithuania to the Balkans, and on to Berlin, how 'excited' they were to be 'surrounded' by Russian soldiers.

Americans and english commited more rapes than russians in WW2. They started spaming propaganda videos and stories to diverse the guilty and crime from themselves.

Many American and English rapists, in 1945, in the triangle defined by Lithuania, the Balkans and Berlin.

just give up zombi ...it's obvious Tito's mind is filled with eastern propaganda bullshit, he is delusional and brainwashed. Not to mention hundred of historical errors in his posts etc. etc.

Even though the rational part of my brain tells me you are absolutely correct, the emotional part in me hopes that one or two facts creep in.

That being said, it is good to know that rampant ignorance isn't the exclusive province of America - it is a land welcome to all who would dwell there.

Tarafından yazıldı x___, 21.03.2014 at 10:14

That was pretty stupid black shark. clearly you are from krym. CLEARLY. if you were from krym, you would also know that not even half of the population voted. the tatars protested the vote. the pro-russian leader of krym is on the run. russians arent even getting touched in krym. yet - there are a ton of videas showing ukrainians beat in krym.

That was pretty stupid Nastya. Clearly you are from Ukraine. CREARLY. If you were from Ukraine, you would know that Tatars are a minority and close to 50 percent. The Tatars, one of the minorities boycotted the vote. There are no reports of the Crimean president on the run (please show proof). There are videoa of Russians beating nationalist Ukrainians.

Tarafından yazıldı Guest, 21.03.2014 at 14:13

Tarafından yazıldı x___, 21.03.2014 at 10:14

That was pretty stupid black shark. clearly you are from krym. CLEARLY. if you were from krym, you would also know that not even half of the population voted. the tatars protested the vote. the pro-russian leader of krym is on the run. russians arent even getting touched in krym. yet - there are a ton of videas showing ukrainians beat in krym.

That was pretty stupid Nastya. Clearly you are from Ukraine. CREARLY. If you were from Ukraine, you would know that Tatars are a minority and close to 50 percent. The Tatars, one of the minorities boycotted the vote. There are no reports of the Crimean president on the run (please show proof). There are videoa of Russians beating nationalist Ukrainians.

you said it yourself. you said that there are a ton of videos of russians beating ukrainians. and you said like a 5 year old the rest of the time tbh.

Tarafından yazıldı Skanderbeg, 21.03.2014 at 14:28

Tarafından yazıldı Grimm, 21.03.2014 at 13:42

A referendum is democratic only if it is held by a democratically elected administration.

Please go check what referendum means then come back.
Referendum is held by people, start by people and end by people decision, government has nothing to do with it.

Tarafından yazıldı Grimm, 21.03.2014 at 13:42

In addition to this, a democratic referendum should allow sufficient time for both sides to campaign.

to campaign? This aint POTUS you know. You watch too much american movies.

A democratic referendum is held by a democratically elected government. A government elected by the people holds the referendum, not the people themselves. The people participate in the referendum by voting. They elect a government that will hold it for them. Do you disagree with this? If so, what is your alternate definition of a referendum? Perhaps you were confusing petition and referendum...

We've had 2 referendums for independence where I live. Even though I am for the independence of my region, I would never approve of a referendum such as the one that was held in Crimea. I would want the process to be conducted correctly so that the outcome would have as much legitimacy as possible. If you want a proper referendum for independence, you need time for people to present their points of view & debate. At least if you want it to be done in a democratic way. After all, you are voting on the independence of a region. This is a very important decision with huge consequences! Much larger than just electing a new local government. If the people are really for independence, then there is nothing to worry about no? They will still vote yes. On the other hand, if all you want is to seize power quickly, you do it like the Russians did in Crimea.

The Crimean parliament was stormed, seized & locked down by unidentified soldiers. The previous president was ousted and a new one was installed (from a small minority party). It was this parliament that called for a hurried referendum. Sure, the members of parliament were democratically elected but don't you think there is something wrong when soldiers have deposed the previous president?

Because the Crimean referendum was a botched and conducted by a parliament that had been seized by soldiers, it lacks credibility.

Tarafından yazıldı Skanderbeg, 21.03.2014 at 14:28

Tarafından yazıldı Grimm, 21.03.2014 at 13:42

Russian Roulette is the title of the series. The news agency is called VICE News. I think you meant to say that VICE news is western propaganda. In fact, I think you mean to say that any organization that reports anything wrong with the referendum or with what Russia is doing in Ukraine is western propaganda.

Russian roulette series is propaganda, idk about VICE news.

Russian Roulette is VICE News. You don't know who they are yet you accuse them of being propaganda? Again, proof or it's just empty words.

Tarafından yazıldı x___, 21.03.2014 at 15:54

Tarafından yazıldı Guest, 21.03.2014 at 14:13

Tarafından yazıldı x___, 21.03.2014 at 10:14

That was pretty stupid black shark. clearly you are from krym. CLEARLY. if you were from krym, you would also know that not even half of the population voted. the tatars protested the vote. the pro-russian leader of krym is on the run. russians arent even getting touched in krym. yet - there are a ton of videas showing ukrainians beat in krym.

That was pretty stupid Nastya. Clearly you are from Ukraine. CREARLY. If you were from Ukraine, you would know that Tatars are a minority and close to 50 percent. The Tatars, one of the minorities boycotted the vote. There are no reports of the Crimean president on the run (please show proof). There are videoa of Russians beating nationalist Ukrainians.

you said it yourself. you said that there are a ton of videos of russians beating ukrainians. and you said like a 5 year old the rest of the time tbh.

I said Ukrainian nationalists. AKA them Maidan people that killed their own protesters, sniped police.